being that i have found myself in trouble with the subject
of "opinion", i would like to put in my 3 cents.

i feel a bit confused. you are trying to do something to raise money
for a wonderful cause. building or rebuilding a playground for
children to play at instead of playing at home in parents gunchests
is a wonderful cause. so you posted your cause here on the board for
everyone to see. you expected to receive feedback of many types and
mention that you welcome them all. BUT, in the very next paragraph,
you write:
"Lastly, I asked for help. Yes, I expected some to have negative
comments, but I also expected common courtesy. Instead of
saying, "Are you this?" and "Are you that?" in a nasty tone, you
could have said, "I think it would be better if you did that or
that." My 6-year-old knows that. You folks are so quick to
criticize. I bet most are only this way on the internet because I
doubt that you would have the nerve to speak like that had I asked
this in person."
which is it? do you respect other peoples opinions or do you not like
the opinions that you get when they are critical of an idea you are
bringing forward. this paragraph i clipped that you wrote yourself,
doesn't make you sound like you respect others opinions. i mean, you
can't have it both ways!

the one thing i have learned about letterboxing, with opinions, you
like it or leave it! you can't have it both ways!

oh, and i think your going to respond, because you are sitting by
your computer that you don't sit by, waiting to see what other bad
opinions you get from your post. there are no bad opinions!

david (team new hampshire)
http://teamnewhampshire.blogspot.com






--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "discoverytoys_joystoys"
wrote:
>
> I have never been more sorry to have asked for help as I am right
now.
>
> First of all, I am not a gamer, I am a letterboxer, and just
because
> I have something better to do on a Saturday instead of sitting in
> front of my computer waiting for responses should not make me
> suspect.
>
> Maybe I did not leave a lot of info, but I thought this was a
> relatively simple idea, and was not expecting the inquisition.
>
> Next, I volunteer for a 100-year-old community organization, which
is
> trying to build a playground. I'm sorry that is not some
monumental
> earth/life saving cause, but it is an important one where I am.
>
> I never said that I would list or mention boxes not planted by us.
I
> just said that if someone where not satisfied with only finding 15
> then they could do others, which would have to be with clues found
by
> their own means.
>
> I don't see why anyone would try to find other boxes not listed in
> the rally during the rally because it's a race, also I don't see
> people leaving boxes out in the open because they would help the
> competition, and therefore I don't get that argument.
>
> Also, as for letterboxing being a secret, it's not, at least here.
In
> fact, two Saturdays ago, I went to a conference in which
letterboxing
> was the topic. It was geared for people who have never heard of it
> and taught them the ropes. Over 150 people were in that room and
> they all took away that letterbox was for everyone, which it is,
and
> were chomping at the bit to go out and tell people. So, to capture
> the new excitement and offer an opportunity to current boxers, we
> thought of this idea. And you know, someone told you. Maybe they
> should not have to keep it a secret.
>
> If you don't like the idea of paying for clues, that's fine, and I
> respect that. Yes, I actually respect differing opinions. Novel,
> isn't it? Obviously, if you don't like the idea, no one is forcing
> you to do it. If absolutely no one agreed with this idea, then no
one
> would come, and that would be the end of that. But many people do
> things for a cause they believe in, that they wouldn't do
otherwise.
> I just paid $2 for a 2 spoonfuls of ice cream for my son's music
> program at school. Would I have paid an ice cram vendor so much for
> so little? No, but I did. Would you normally want to pay for a
clue?
> No, but we have many supporters who would.
>
> Lastly, I asked for help. Yes, I expected some to have negative
> comments, but I also expected common courtesy. Instead of
> saying, "Are you this?" and "Are you that?" in a nasty tone, you
> could have said, "I think it would be better if you did that or
> that." My 6-year-old knows that. You folks are so quick to
> criticize. I bet most are only this way on the internet because I
> doubt that you would have the nerve to speak like that had I asked
> this in person.
>
> I understand that everyone here loves letterboxing and wants to see
> it continue in a pleasant and fun manner. But, holy cow, some of
you
> are like Gollum in Lord of the Rings. Go and keep your "precious."
I
> doubt I will respond to any further comments.
>
> I appreciate the emails of support some have sent.
>

<< oh, and i think your going to respond, because you are sitting by
your computer that you don't sit by, waiting to see what other bad
opinions you get from your post. there are no bad opinions!
>>

This is the type of comment that, in my opinion, is totally 100% uncalled
for.

There are a helluva lot of people that *don't* sit by their computers just
waiting for each and every email to come in from discussion groups they
belong to. Some folks don't even check their email but once every couple of
days, others maybe once a week, others maybe once every 10 seconds.

The post intimating that they might be a "gamer" playing "games" with this
list was also totally 100% uncalled for without some verification from, at
the very, *least* The National Equirer for heaven's sake. Even The Enquirer
wouldn't have gone to press with that little of solid information. They're
a new subscriber. They posted a query that, being a new subscriber, they
certainly might not have realized would bring out the dueling pistols but it
did. They must be playin' games with us. :-)

Having said that.........

If a person is a new subscriber to this list, as it seems they were, they
easily might not realize that this list can get out of hand quite quickly.
They also might not have realized that they needed to add a lot more
information to their post. And quickly quickly! Before the day is out!

Wouldn't it have been nicer to ask questions first, wait for the person to
answer, and then fly off in a tizzy later?

I didn't get the feeling that the original poster was necessarily
complaining about the negative opinions. I think possibly they were
complaining about the lack of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. And even if folks
didn't want to be constructive in their criticism, a little less venom
*could* have been dripped in voicing the opinions. There may be no bad
opinions but there are certainly bad ways to vocalize opinions.

For new folks joining the list, maybe a prerequisite to subscribing to this
list should be a passing grade in Rattlesnake Milking 101. Then new folks
might have a little easier job of it.

For veterans posting to the list, maybe before hitting "send", it's not a
bad idea for the poster to pretend they're saying it face-to-face to their
mother?

Well.....OK......not everybody loves their mama. (Dr. Phil's mansion can
attest to that.)

Pretend they're saying it face-to-face to their spouse?

Well....OK.......not everybody loves their spouse. (Dr. Phil's mansion can
attest to that too.)

How 'bout this? Pretend they're saying it face-to-face to someone in a club
one evening that they're desperately lookin' to pick up or get a phone
number out of? (Dr. Phil's even got his thumb in *that* pie -- what's the
name of that singles personals online dating service he has a stake in now?)

~~ Mosey ~~

To Mosey, Silver Eagle and all,

Mosey, I would like to "second" your email and then make a motion that
we close this specific discussion. Please, please. Let's make this
stop..... I'm not a newbe--nor have I been around as long as some
others, but I know that these threads have an impact on me---if only
that they can continue to float through my head long after I have gone
on to my next email or have gone to do something away from my computer.
I really wish we could all just play nicely in the letterboxing sandbox
and, as you have already said Mosey---make the assumption of right or
at least ask first. One of the analogies I use in management is to
think of giving feedback as if you are keeping a tower of Jello
upright. Give enough feedback to keep it upright, but do it gently
enough that you don't squeeze right through.

To the person who does the car rally type event, I wish I lived closer
to you! Some of my fondest childhood memories were of going with my mom
and dad on sports car rallies. I think this is why I love letterboxing
so much now!

Silver Eagle, I debated whether or not to reply to your question about
the perfect spot. If I had, I was simply going to say that I thought
you had, with quite a bit of knowledge, answered your own question. I
thought you made great points all the way through your message and
thought it could have been used as one of the official definitions
floating through this hobby. Perhaps I should have jumped in and said
at least that much---but since I didn't have much to contribute in
substance compared to what you had already wrote, I didn't think folks
needed to hear my "nod".

"Nobody doesn't like Jello!" :)
Trailtracker

xxxxxxxx wrote:

> << oh, and i think your going to respond, because you are sitting by
> your computer that you don't sit by, waiting to see what other bad
> opinions you get from your post. there are no bad opinions!
> >>
>
> This is the type of comment that, in my opinion, is totally 100% uncalled
> for.
>
> There are a helluva lot of people that *don't* sit by their computers just
> waiting for each and every email to come in from discussion groups they
> belong to. Some folks don't even check their email but once every
> couple of
> days, others maybe once a week, others maybe once every 10 seconds.
>
> The post intimating that they might be a "gamer" playing "games" with this
> list was also totally 100% uncalled for without some verification from, at
> the very, *least* The National Equirer for heaven's sake. Even The
> Enquirer
> wouldn't have gone to press with that little of solid information. They're
> a new subscriber. They posted a query that, being a new subscriber, they
> certainly might not have realized would bring out the dueling pistols
> but it
> did. They must be playin' games with us. :-)
>
> Having said that.........
>
> If a person is a new subscriber to this list, as it seems they were, they
> easily might not realize that this list can get out of hand quite quickly.
> They also might not have realized that they needed to add a lot more
> information to their post. And quickly quickly! Before the day is out!
>
> Wouldn't it have been nicer to ask questions first, wait for the person to
> answer, and then fly off in a tizzy later?
>
> I didn't get the feeling that the original poster was necessarily
> complaining about the negative opinions. I think possibly they were
> complaining about the lack of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. And even if folks
> didn't want to be constructive in their criticism, a little less venom
> *could* have been dripped in voicing the opinions. There may be no bad
> opinions but there are certainly bad ways to vocalize opinions.
>
> For new folks joining the list, maybe a prerequisite to subscribing to
> this
> list should be a passing grade in Rattlesnake Milking 101. Then new folks
> might have a little easier job of it.
>
> For veterans posting to the list, maybe before hitting "send", it's not a
> bad idea for the poster to pretend they're saying it face-to-face to their
> mother?
>
> Well.....OK......not everybody loves their mama. (Dr. Phil's mansion can
> attest to that.)
>
> Pretend they're saying it face-to-face to their spouse?
>
> Well....OK.......not everybody loves their spouse. (Dr. Phil's mansion can
> attest to that too.)
>
> How 'bout this? Pretend they're saying it face-to-face to someone in a
> club
> one evening that they're desperately lookin' to pick up or get a phone
> number out of? (Dr. Phil's even got his thumb in *that* pie -- what's the
> name of that singles personals online dating service he has a stake in
> now?)
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LOL, ok, you got my funny bone on this one.

My Momma has been known to read the list, so anything I say, she's
just not surprised at anymore.

My spouse of 22 years knows I'm opinionated and has come to expect
the unexpected out of my mouth. In fact, before marriage my father
informed him, albeit tongue in cheek, "you can't argue with that one
and win."

And, I'm not looking for a date--the one I got many years ago loved
me just as I am and thought it was ok!

Thanks for the giggle. :o)

PS- for brevity's sake, I think Don's idea of printing up tee shirts
and hiding those as a treasure hunt sounded like a lot of fun. My
other thought was this---since it's for a playground, the kids might
enjoy something more along the lines of a hybrid geocache with
trinkets to take but clues to follow to keep participant expense down.

Ooops, I might have just been constructive. Can't let that happen
again. ;o)

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "xxxxxxxx"
wrote:
> For veterans posting to the list, maybe before hitting "send", it's
not a bad idea for the poster to pretend they're saying it face-to-
face to their mother?
>
> Well.....OK......not everybody loves their mama. (Dr. Phil's
mansion can attest to that.)
>
> Pretend they're saying it face-to-face to their spouse?
>
> Well....OK.......not everybody loves their spouse. (Dr. Phil's
mansion can attest to that too.)
>
> How 'bout this? Pretend they're saying it face-to-face to someone
in a club one evening that they're desperately lookin' to pick up or
get a phone number out of? (Dr. Phil's even got his thumb in *that*
pie -- what's the name of that singles personals online dating
service he has a stake in now?)
>
> ~~ Mosey ~~
>

Hi, Joy,

Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. I hope you did not read a caustic tone in my reply because there was none intended.

In the future, before you post to an on-line group, maybe you should try to take some time to know the characters and general flavor of the group. You may have found a similar subject already in the archive and have been too afraid to post right off the bat! ;-) Weeding through a busy talk list is time consuming and there are pitfalls with this, too. You may read the most obnoxious posts first from an otherwise nice person (or miss the sarcasm/irony) and you may think the person is just a big jerk no matter what you read from them from that point on. As on-line talk groups go, this one is actually a den of pussycats compared to some usenet groups I've dared to enter. I know it takes time and you are not only a mom but also you have an outside job and are putting effort into bettering your community. And I know that if you are a kind and courteous person who teaches her child to be that way you may feel attacked by now, but I don't think that was the general intention. I don't assume to speak for everyone but most of the people I've met through letterboxing are really nice people and not ogres, except maybe Brian and Phyto. I keed, I keed....

You may read this thinking that I'm saying it condescendingly or in a snotty tone, but try to read it as though I have just gave you a hello hug and a cup of tea and that changes everything. Oh, some people are blatantly clear in whatever tone they wish to convey, but you are a big part of the equation with how you choose to hear the message _and how you choose to react_. I get POed sometimes and want to rant but I don't, because then I know I'd look like the bigger idiot. Not trying to sound too momsy, but you need to try to filter things and withhold judgement if you are hurt or angered easily. Save all those bad feelings for when you might really be justified, like when someone steals your letterbox or trashes it and fills the logbook with obscene sketches.

Now you know that when you ask for opinions here, you will get them even if you don't like the message. Since your last post, I think we all know a little more about you and I wish you'd posted more about yourself sooner.

Yours in 'boxing,
Mary
TS


----- Original Message -----
From: discoverytoys_joystoys
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 8:25 AM
Subject: [LbNA] To everyone


I have never been more sorry to have asked for help as I am right now.

< LOTS SNIPPED>

I understand that everyone here loves letterboxing and wants to see
it continue in a pleasant and fun manner. But, holy cow, some of you
are like Gollum in Lord of the Rings. Go and keep your "precious." I
doubt I will respond to any further comments.

I appreciate the emails of support some have sent.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would like the idea of a rally letterbox day. But,
the dates are not right for me. Meeting other
letterboxers and then running around trying to find
boxes "together" sound like a good idea. What is the
charity for anyways? Is it going to be like a
gathering?

This is the way that I would treat this proposal. I
wish that was the way that others would treat it.

Simple yes and no questions, with ideas to make this
rally better. No BS or flames.

bicycling george




test'; ">

test'; ">



____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL

Sorry this is too late for Joy to read as she has reportedly dropped
off the list, I too was away for the weekend but after reading her
response I'm satisfied that she won't attempt to profit off of other
peoples work.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "discoverytoys_joystoys"
wrote:

> I never said that I would list or mention boxes not planted by us.

I don't know if all the comments about post being...what were those
adjectives; nasty, elitist, arrogant, self-righteous...were aimed at
me but the only thing I said in my two posts on this topic that I see
that could be considered negative is the statement that attempts to
profit off of other letterboxers work was crass. In any other
situation exploiting someone elses work would be seen as unethical or
illegal. Of the few boxes I planted, I planted them for anyone and
everyone to enjoy freely, unencummbered by commerce. If that opinion
and the expression of it makes me a b!(@& that I wear your scarlet
letter proudly.

I can't believe I'm stooping to this but I feel compelled to point out
that in neither of my posts did I hurl slurs or make ad homynm attacks
as did those who seem to be accusing me of being nasty,
self-righteous, egomaniacal, elitist, arrogant or just a B!(@&.

I have pasted my comments below for review.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Lady Hydrangea Prisspott nee
Hedge" wrote:
If I had a box in this area and found out that it was listed in you're
fundraiser I'd be furious to say the least. The most offensive things
to come across this site are the constant crass attempts at exploiting
this hobby for commercial gain. Hear, hear, Phyto. I couldn't agree
more nor say it more diplomatically.

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Lady Hydrangea Prisspott nee
Hedge" wrote:
Wow, those responses shot out fast.

It is correct that she said she would plant 15 boxes for the event but
is it really much different to sell clues to the 15 she planted and
then say, "Oh, by the way there are these other boxes here too." It's
a rather fine and indistinct line don't you think?

I don't buy the all charity is good angle either, nor the accusation
that begrudging a charity the opportunity to raise money constitutes
callous disregard for a suffering child. Charities have agenda's too.
There are legally recognized 501(c) charities on both sides of
something as common yet divisive as the abortion issue and gun rights
to those that support a religious agenda that may differ from my own
beliefs to the whacko types like the flat earth society and a guy
named Don Croft who wants people to donate money to help fight the US
government's efforts to reprogram our minds by using cell phone towers
to send out though control beams...it's real! That doesn't even get
into the ones that sound good but are grossly mismanaged and that have
CEOS earning million dollar salaries (remember the United Way scandal?)

So, NO. I don't accept your slurs accusing me of hating sick children
or disregarding women with breast cancer. I certainly won't lend even
ersatz support to your charity event if I don't know the
organization's mission statement and financial structure. Neither of
which were offered in the original e-mail.

I've been debating over whether too add anything to this
discussion. I will call this a discussion and not an arguement. I
think there are valuable points that have been raised amidst the
turmoil and I'd like to add what I *think* about the subject.

When I first starting letterboxing, I caused a furor on one of the
yahoo groups (either here or LBMA) about wanting to do a
letterboxing workshop and advertising it in the newspaper. I was
disuaded from this with good reason. I was too new (and still am)
to even think about throwing letterboxing out there willy-nilly. I
for one have come to dislike the publicity as I see how too much
expansion could damage the hobby (and probably already has for
some.) I'm glad I was thwarted from this ill-conceived idea, but it
was borne out of a love for this hobby that has only intensified
since my introduction, unabated.

One of my first finds had a hitchhiker in it. It was the first
hitchhiker I have ever found and I was extremely excited. In the
midst of trying to figure out what to do with the thing, I also
attempted to figure out who it belonged too so I could send them a
found report. The letterboxer who planted it was one from the "old
school" and did not list their clues or boxes online. I was
confused by this, as I did not understand how the hobby could be
played without some central listing of clues. I have come to
understand that this person has become dismayed with listing clues
online and chooses to distribute their boxes only to the communtiy
around them and boxers they feel comfortable with.

I think this hobby has a lot of parallels with any underground
activity. You will always have purists, originators, who feel like
it has become something else. This happens with everything. You
will also have people like myself who have just stumbled onto it
through a link or something, 10 YEARS after it's inception.

Yeah, I'm a noob. I always will be to people like Phyto and
TeamGreenDragon (I mention you folk to provide an example of
longevity, not because of any specific character attribute.) I've
found 80+ boxes in 7 months, but this doesn't come close to the
mountains of tupperware some have found. The boxes I've planted do
not have terribly cryptic clues, and a lot of them are are not in
beautiful spots. (keep watching!) I think there's room for all
kinds of boxes, and if you don't want to find one with an easy clue
or a rest stop box, then no biggie, do what you feel.

The problem comes down to education. For me, anything that we care
deeply about should be built by a community, nurturing each other
and educating each other so things like poor rehiding of boxes and
planting in dangerous areas do not happen.

Whatever you think about the hobby, hiding under a rock or lashing
out at new people will do no good, as they (we) will keep coming.

Oh yeah, a lot here has been said about making money off of
letterboxing. Choi and the folks at LB.org and Ryan at AQ spend
countless hours giving to the letterboxing community. I have no
problem supporting those sites by a premium membership or a
donation. Stampeaz sells a wonderful product. I feel that these are
different than the planned outings. Outings draw non-boxers, and if
there isn't a solid education system in place, bad things will ensue.

All these words come done to this: Like it or not, new people will
come and keep coming. The best thing we can do is to guide people
in the right direction.

Mr. Yuk
(who likes letterboxing because:
1. It's ANOTHER way to spend time with my son outdoors.
2. Seeing beautiful area that I have never discovered.
3. Seeing artwrok from all kinds of wonderful people.
4. Being part of a group of such talented individuals.
nuff said)

You make some very good points, and I do agree with your thoughts on education. However, that being said, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink. There are a wealth of educational resources available to new letterboxers, from the LbNA F.A.Q. and glossary to articles at AQ and other letterboxers' websites. There are links to most of these from the main and regional talk lists. But still many, many people do not take the time to read and research before enthusiastically jumping in. So even though the community has made commendable efforts toward providing educational opportunity, still, as your post seems to confirm, the best teacher is experience.

What is frustrating to some is that often new folks come in and criticize and attempt to change things before they have any real experience or understanding with the game and why things are like they are. That is not to say that every new letterboxer will pay his dues and come to the realization that nothing should change or agree with an old-school approach to letterboxing -- this is not necessarily the goal. One would hope though that experience would bring an acceptance of the differing ways that people play the game and a respect for these philosophies, even if they do not personally agree with them.

SpringChick


----- Original Message -----
From: kpiletterbox
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 10:30 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: To everyone


I've been debating over whether too add anything to this
discussion. I will call this a discussion and not an arguement. I
think there are valuable points that have been raised amidst the
turmoil and I'd like to add what I *think* about the subject.

When I first starting letterboxing, I caused a furor on one of the
yahoo groups (either here or LBMA) about wanting to do a
letterboxing workshop and advertising it in the newspaper. I was
disuaded from this with good reason. I was too new (and still am)
to even think about throwing letterboxing out there willy-nilly. I
for one have come to dislike the publicity as I see how too much
expansion could damage the hobby (and probably already has for
some.) I'm glad I was thwarted from this ill-conceived idea, but it
was borne out of a love for this hobby that has only intensified
since my introduction, unabated.

One of my first finds had a hitchhiker in it. It was the first
hitchhiker I have ever found and I was extremely excited. In the
midst of trying to figure out what to do with the thing, I also
attempted to figure out who it belonged too so I could send them a
found report. The letterboxer who planted it was one from the "old
school" and did not list their clues or boxes online. I was
confused by this, as I did not understand how the hobby could be
played without some central listing of clues. I have come to
understand that this person has become dismayed with listing clues
online and chooses to distribute their boxes only to the communtiy
around them and boxers they feel comfortable with.

I think this hobby has a lot of parallels with any underground
activity. You will always have purists, originators, who feel like
it has become something else. This happens with everything. You
will also have people like myself who have just stumbled onto it
through a link or something, 10 YEARS after it's inception.

Yeah, I'm a noob. I always will be to people like Phyto and
TeamGreenDragon (I mention you folk to provide an example of
longevity, not because of any specific character attribute.) I've
found 80+ boxes in 7 months, but this doesn't come close to the
mountains of tupperware some have found. The boxes I've planted do
not have terribly cryptic clues, and a lot of them are are not in
beautiful spots. (keep watching!) I think there's room for all
kinds of boxes, and if you don't want to find one with an easy clue
or a rest stop box, then no biggie, do what you feel.

The problem comes down to education. For me, anything that we care
deeply about should be built by a community, nurturing each other
and educating each other so things like poor rehiding of boxes and
planting in dangerous areas do not happen.

Whatever you think about the hobby, hiding under a rock or lashing
out at new people will do no good, as they (we) will keep coming.

Oh yeah, a lot here has been said about making money off of
letterboxing. Choi and the folks at LB.org and Ryan at AQ spend
countless hours giving to the letterboxing community. I have no
problem supporting those sites by a premium membership or a
donation. Stampeaz sells a wonderful product. I feel that these are
different than the planned outings. Outings draw non-boxers, and if
there isn't a solid education system in place, bad things will ensue.

All these words come done to this: Like it or not, new people will
come and keep coming. The best thing we can do is to guide people
in the right direction.

Mr. Yuk
(who likes letterboxing because:
1. It's ANOTHER way to spend time with my son outdoors.
2. Seeing beautiful area that I have never discovered.
3. Seeing artwrok from all kinds of wonderful people.
4. Being part of a group of such talented individuals.
nuff said)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "kpiletterbox"
wrote:

> Yeah, I'm a noob. I always will be to people like Phyto and
> TeamGreenDragon (I mention you folk to provide an example of
> longevity, not because of any specific character attribute.)

Is this a new technical definition of a "newbie"? Forgive me for not
knowing, for I reside in a cave most of the time.

Well, it doesn't matter. New or old, habits die hard and whether
you've been boxing for one day, one year or one lifetime, it doesn't
make a difference to me. I blindly see the hobby as an artistic outlet
that allows me to connect with nature and my surrounding environs in a
unique way that also allows me to share it (somewhat) anonymously with
others. The difference is that I have learned over time that it can't
be a free-for-all.


> I've found 80+ boxes in 7 months, but this doesn't come close to the
> mountains of tupperware some have found. The boxes I've planted do
> not have terribly cryptic clues, and a lot of them are are not in
> beautiful spots. (keep watching!) I think there's room for all
> kinds of boxes, and if you don't want to find one with an easy clue
> or a rest stop box, then no biggie, do what you feel.

Do what you like, like what you do, do be do be do!


> The problem comes down to education. For me, anything that we care
> deeply about should be built by a community, nurturing each other
> and educating each other so things like poor rehiding of boxes and
> planting in dangerous areas do not happen.

Ah, letterboxing becomes an interesting parallel of our current
society. A model example of what happens when we have too much of a
good thing and there isn't enough secrecy in the way in which we go
about our operations. The education is free - with a price -
responsibility...


> Whatever you think about the hobby, hiding under a rock or lashing
> out at new people will do no good, as they (we) will keep coming.

Yes I agree. We should always scratch one or two layers below the
surface and there is more, always more to be found. Just as more keep
coming, more will pass and time shall move forward. The hobby has
changed, some are in denial but it is an opportunity to think more
creatively about clues and boxes in ways that push the envelope.


> Oh yeah, a lot here has been said about making money off of
> letterboxing. Choi and the folks at LB.org and Ryan at AQ spend
> countless hours giving to the letterboxing community. I have no
> problem supporting those sites by a premium membership or a
> donation.

The point isn't to make money. We all know that letterboxing supplies
add up over time. Between the plastic, the rubber and the paper, it's
not a free hobby. A lot of it can be recycled, but it's still not
cheap. The price of petroleum products and gasoline for driving
entails that we even rethink the number of boxes that we go out and
find. Perhaps the rail-trail boxes are more popular now or ones that
involve driving to a central point and walking from there. As we
consider a smaller ecological footprint in our daily lives it will
inevitably have a ripple effect on our lifestyle.

Letterboxing has a unique and different significance in all of our
lives. However, we still rely upon a characteristically "free" method
of obtaining clues. Consider the number of times (myself included) you
have used the internet to search for and print clues. The amount of
paper or time or electricity you've used. There are small ways in
which we can reduce this over time. It just takes the creativity of
our community as a whole.

Here's to more innovative clues in new locales and respect to those
who have placed before us.

cheers,
phyto